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Most acknowledge that UFO reports are not restricted to one particular country or continent

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of peoples. It is a global phenomena and those most closely affected by it, be they researchers

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or eyewitnesses, often come together at conferences staged throughout the world to share their

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views, information and knowledge. In December 1999 we journeyed to Acapulco in Mexico, a

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popular holiday resort on the Pacific coast to participate in the last major conference

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of the old millennium. Countless holiday makers flocked to Acapulco from countries far and

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wide throughout the year, drawn by sun-drenched beaches, magnificent bays and nightly festivities

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which are a throwback to ancient Mexican culture. But the main attraction of that December week

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was undoubtedly the Congreso Mondial Ovni, an event which saw several sparkling presentations

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by some of the best known figures in international UFO research. During our week-long visit,

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we caught up with several of the speakers during breaks in proceedings to seek their

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views on matters which are both topical and of particular relevance to their own field

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of study. Among them was Dr. Bob Wood and his son Ryan, who, over the past couple of years,

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have made several outstanding breakthroughs in analyzing countless documents pertaining

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to an alleged COVA UFO study group known as Majestic 12. Later we hear from Dr. Richard

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Haynes, widely acknowledged to be the world's leading expert on UFO and pilot encounters.

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And we discover what persuaded best-selling author with Mr. Striber to turn his attention

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to a new book on the environment entitled The Coming Global Superstore. But we begin

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with Bob and Ryan Wood, who later this year will be among the guest speakers at the 19th

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Leeds International UFO Conference.

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The manual is an instruction manual for personnel to recover crash saucers and ship the parts

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to the right places. It does include special procedures for shipping from overseas. And

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so in that sense it embraces the overseas aspect. It's important to remember, it is

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a field manual for troops in the field. And I think that this was, it didn't give a broad,

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very broad overview of the program or maybe the other foreign intelligence that may have

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been available, but it was sort of a how-to manual. And when you look at the mundaneness

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of crate packing, it is almost an identical copy of an existing field manual, Army field

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manual from Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania, where they have a reservoir of all these

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manuals. And you can find the references in the back of the manual perfectly line up for

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the era. And some of the documents changed shortly thereafter. The manual was printed

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in April of 54. So it's interesting that it's such a tight fit to that time frame. And even,

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you might say that the fact that it's just about pick up recovering wreckage and so forth,

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and not about all the other aspects that you mentioned, lends towards its authenticity rather

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than tracks. There are some other subtleties associated with the language too. For example,

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the use of the word screwdriver is two separate words, is the way it's shown in the manual.

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And that is consistent with what was in the dictionary in 1949. And then over the next

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decade, the change to one word use as the application to avoid the drink.

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Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned some of those things. I mean, the first thing I think of

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is the control page in the manual. At first, the control page was not distributed because

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Don Berliner didn't perceive it. And then later it was discovered, and the control

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page has specific changes in the manual, and then initials and authorizations. And some

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of the initials, the JRT and EWL, we've been doing research and trying to identify those

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specific soldiers that would have been responsible for that in the Kirkland Air Force Base phone

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book stamped inside the manual is unit KB 88, building 21, Kirkland Air Force Base.

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And we found there really is a building 21. It's now called Building 750. And we can't

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determine whether or not there was a unit 88, but we're in a correspondence with the historians

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of Kirkland Air Force Base. And we've been given verbal authorization to get the historic

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phone books to review and look for EWL's JRTs and then ultimately find those soldiers and

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ask them those questions.

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Well, we certainly welcome criticisms or concerns about the authenticity of the manual. In fact,

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we keep a running list of the best way to deal with those concerns. And one of the concerns,

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for example, was a raised Z. And what happened was when I first met with a specialist at

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the government printing office and asked him, so what do you think about this manual, this

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document? Does it look authentic to you or not? And he studied it and calls him over for

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a little bit. And he said, well, it looks to me like the type is right, monotype modern.

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And then he looked and he says, and it's interesting, he said that every so often the Z's are raised

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like we used to get in those days. I said, well, why is that? And he said, well, because

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once in a while and letters that were not frequently used, they would only have a few

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master master brass letters in the stack. And then every so often you get some sort of a

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piece of lead on the bottom and you would find a repetition of the Z being raised in

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particular. So my partner son went to the Stanford library and he found a document that

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was authentic 1954 with just a few raised Z's. And you actually see lots of variability

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in the E's and the A's, not so much on their lining up, but the formation of each of those

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letters when studied under 400% magnification, you can see that there's, it's a mechanical

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process. And the answer is that as Stan Friedman and I followed the trail of the special operation

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manual, he continued to receive correspondence from Timothy Cooper, including copies. And

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I didn't know that. And then, you know, as we were talking along, he said, well, you

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know, I'm getting stuff from a guy who lives in California. In fact, he says he lives

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closer to you than I do. Big Bear Lake, why don't you go up and visit it? So I called

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him and went to visit this guy, Tim Cooper. And he said that over all the years that he'd

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tried to get some interest from somebody in the UFO community, I was the first person

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to drive up the hill and say hello. So he was therefore motivated to exchange information.

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And after a couple of meetings with him myself, then Ryan and I met with him together. We've

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probably had six visits, many dozens of hours. Yeah, 20 or 25 hours time with him. Timothy

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Cooper's background is that he grew up near Harlem, Harlem and Air Force Base in Alamogordo.

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And his, one of his close relatives was assigned there to work in the Army. And he had an unusual

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experience where he was asked, apparently, to run copies of a classified report which

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had to do with the crash recovery of the UFO. And he told this story to Timothy and that

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caused Timothy to get some interest so that as of 1988, Tim began to file freedom of information

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requests and that ultimately transcended 12 different agencies. He has 5,000 pages of

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freedom of information request responses in his living room.

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Well, he basically has six different source elements. The first element was the legionnaire.

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He met the local Big Bear legionnaire. He gave him the air accident report which he later

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forwarded to Leo Stringfield who published it in his book, Status Report Number 4, I believe.

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And then he had another source, a CIA archivist who apparently contacted him and met him in

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person in a parking lot and handed over the Marilyn Monroe document which mentions MJ-12

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and the 54-12 committee in the lower left hand corner and signed by James Jesus Angleton.

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Now, was that an original document or was it a photocopy?

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Both are photocopies present. And then the next source or rival was Cantwheel, the alias

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Thomas Sy Cantwheel. I think Sy is his middle name or first name, but Thomas Sy Cantwheel.

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And you got mailbox drops first and then there was an in-person meeting with Tim. And

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then Salina, there were three mailbox drops in there to meet. Then Salina, the daughter

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of Cantwheel, a year later, sort of, I believe after Cantwheel passed away, sort of wrote

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a note and attached more documents and said, my father's dying wish to the effect is that

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you have these. And so they were delivered.

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And then finally in 1999, July 9th, he received a package from a source called S1 in the mail

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and also a package from the source S2 which included a large manuscript that was originally

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unclassified that was Stanopsecret Magic. So those are the six sources that Tim Cooper

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winds up being the Cantwheel for.

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Now, it's important to emphasize that Tim tried to correspond with Dick Haynes and Tim Good

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and Stan Friedman and maybe a couple other serious researchers and wrote them letters,

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gave them documents and so forth, tried to get them interested at all and they weren't

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really responsive or interested. And from 1992, I believe, to 1996 until we got involved,

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he just kept them in his attic. He was kind of like, I'm not sure the real at all. He

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was quite skeptical. He was. He was very skeptical. And he wasn't out to make money or do this

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or the other thing. He just sort of sat on it. His whole time job as a security guard.

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What is it about these latest documents which have got you to, I think it would be fair

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to say, excited?

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Yeah, it's the original paper and original ink and original type writing. That's the

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number one thing. Those are all forensically testable. And then the sheer volume of material.

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The sheer volume of original obscure material.

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When you talk about obscure material, what do you mean obscure material?

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Things that you couldn't even contemplate fabricating unless you had a degree in military history

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had 10 or 20 years as an archivist in one of the many presidential libraries or national

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archives. You need those skills to try to create or fake something. They're just weird.

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The most recent documents that have arrived contain quite a range of material in the sense

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that some of it is stamped in red, top secret magic or top secret MJ12. And others of it

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are merely newspaper clippings that were included in the original Blue Book files.

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Forgive me, we're talking about Blue Book documents that are not contained in the National

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Archives.

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Yes.

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New Blue Book documents.

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Many of the documents are unequivocally Blue Book documents. One of the documents not

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only references Blue Book in sort of a notation on the upper right, but it also identifies

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MJ12 and paperclip files, all in the same document. But the document itself is a publicly available

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technical paper on nuclear propulsion.

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Right. Yeah, that's actually one of the ones that are posted on the website on www.mjesticdocuments.com

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is we posted the first 10 or 15 pages of a report on isotope thermal thrusters by John

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Martinez, who is alive and well today. And this report is stamped top secret in the National

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Archives.

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It's a secret magic. It's a photocopy now, but the man's alive. He has the right expertise

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and background. Everything sort of checks. The only thing that hasn't been done is to

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go confront him or ask him, did you write this? And that's a tricky situation because I believe

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for the first time we have somebody who's fingerable as a source for reverse engineering

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and reverse science. Here's a technical paper with top secret magic on it. It's talking

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about propulsion technologies in the 50s. His papers are from the 50s in some cases,

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but this is actually 1968 or 69 paper.

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It may sound an obvious question, but how can you approach this guy?

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Well, the first thing he would do, suppose he's still clear, he would call a security

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office and say, Bob and Ryan just came by to visit me and ask me about classified material.

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What should I say? How should I deal with that? I want to plan that and think that through a little bit.

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But is this an endless, you know, sound of the oak?

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It is on the oak, but nobody really understands to go find it. Until now, I just told you.

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We have a long list of actions that we should be taking, one of which is, for example, contacting

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Dr. Ray R.E.A.

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And then the 93rd Technical Services Unit. I have the complete roster. These are the people that

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recovered the wreckage from Roswell according to the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit. The

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Detachment 3 ran around, picked up all the wreckage and so forth. There's 160 and some

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unnamed of private, sergeants, BFCs, so forth, that were responsible. And I've found 30 of them

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on the internet, on Yahoo's search, people search. And I started to call some of them.

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And the question is finding the people that are in Detachment 3. Some of them have recalled,

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yeah, I was in New Mexico, I was there, but not talking about anything unusual. It's like,

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I picked up rocket debris all summer long. That's what happened to me. That was the one case

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and we'd tell probably another 20 witnesses that can be researched. They're easy before you

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start getting the names that are exceptionally difficult to find.

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It clearly gave coordinates of landing zone 2. And my first question is, I wonder where that is.

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I said, Ryan, do you have a SOFO map to go look? And so he did. I got several copies of

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Maledon All My Friends and sure enough, about 800 feet or so from the Trinity Burst is this

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longitude latitude coordinate. And then the challenge is, well, we need an aerial photograph

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of this particular site. And what we found was I went to the Willier Archives in Southern California

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and went and found a lot of people that were in the area. And I went to the Willier Archives

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in Southern California and went and found aerial photography of the Trinity Burst site.

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And this is the Trinity Burst site in the center with a fence around it. This is dated September 23, 1948.

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You'll notice in the lower left there's also a small circle and a round zone around that.

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And that is the coordinates of LZ2. And I found this particular picture before the summer drops

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happened at all, I mean like March or April of this year. And then later in the summer,

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we got a picture in a separate envelope that was this picture. And this picture is a leaked photograph

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from Source S1 that shows the Trinity Burst, a little 100 meter thing, and then a clear zone

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in that lower left-hand corner that has more trampling and a bigger security circle around it.

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And so it's very interesting to note these two particular photographs, clearly showing that something happened.

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The next photograph we want to get is the one that's dated June 30, 1947, that there was nothing there.

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If the Majestic 12 documents turn out to be the real thing, then clearly elements of the United States Air Force

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will have had a prominent role in any decision-making process. Over the past 50 years, many Air Force pilots

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have submitted their own official accounts of UFO encounters. But it's not just military pilots

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who have attracted the keen interest of American researcher Richard Haynes. His interviews with civilian pilots

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and flight attendants have helped Richard amass a personal data bank comprising of over 3,000 UFO pilot reports.

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It is, by far, away the largest collection of its kind in the world.

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And I began this level of work back in the 1960s, doing research for NASA,

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and had an opportunity to meet a lot of pilots. And so it's an important area, and I continue to collect data.

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I have over 3,000 cases now, very good cases. But I'm trying to specialize in electromagnetic effects.

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Some transient change in flight director, altimeter compass, VORs, onboard electronic systems

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that only change their behavior when there is the presence of some strange phenomenon near the airplane.

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Is this something that has stemmed from a result of actually analyzing the data and looking for specific patterns?

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Partly. As a psychologist, I'm very concerned with the entire testimony. And what that means is

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not just the words that are used, but the presentation of those words, non-verbal communications,

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the engineering aspects, what the pilots tell me. So I've had to study a lot about aeronautical systems, aeronautics in general.

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So I can put it in context and try to draw conclusions, not just from the patterns, which are important, but from specific details.

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Your background as somebody who began this interest working with NASA, what were you actually doing with the space agency at that time, back in the early 60s?

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I was directing a laboratory called the High Luminance Vision Laboratory, which was basically a space simulation.

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And I could simulate the way objects looked to the astronauts in outer space.

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This was done for rendezvous docking purposes for Gemini, Project Gemini.

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And during that research, I came to discover that I could set up an optical situation in my laboratory, it was a clean room, before there were clean rooms.

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And there was a solar simulator for realistic sunlight as it exists in space.

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And I could set up a target situation that could totally fool the observer.

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And I was surprised at that. I didn't expect that that could happen.

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But by controlling the optical variables, I discovered that I could fool you. I could make you see anything I wanted you to see practically.

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I could change shape, color, size, intensity, orientation, distance.

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And so I said to myself, I can explain UFOs, they're just misidentified natural phenomena.

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And I think as a skeptic, I set out to disprove the whole thing.

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Well, it wasn't very long before I found out that I was wrong. I couldn't explain everything that way.

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And that came as a result of interviewing pilots, a lot of them.

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Were these in the main military pilots, or was it just a general mix at that time?

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It was a general mix. I think there were more commercial pilots, actually.

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Because we were testing volunteer commercial pilots in our flight research in simulators.

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But was there one specific incident that you can recall that set you on this trail, if you like, of making damn sure that when the opportunity arises,

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and you have a quick word with those pilots, and if necessary, if the pilot's conducive to your line of questioning,

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do a lengthier study on a particular incident and the like, was the one thing that stuck out?

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I wish I could say yes, but my conversion was slow and gradual, because I'm a skeptical kind of a stubborn person.

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And I had to let the data speak for itself, and the data came in in bits and pieces.

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So it isn't any one case, although there are many spectacular single cases that I've looked at.

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It's the constellation. It's the message that is embedded in many, many high quality cases from pilots.

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As I fly commercial around the world, I try to make it a point to talk with the flight crew,

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both the flight attendants in the back and the flight crew up front.

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And I must say that I'm getting about 15 to 20 percent, roughly one out of five people I talk with,

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say yes, they've had a strange sighting. That doesn't mean that it's a, quote, traditional UFO, but it's something they couldn't identify.

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And with their experience, that's a significant, you see.

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I will share one that took place over Lake Michigan on an L-1011, filled with passengers on July 4th, 1979, I think it was.

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I don't remember the year very frankly, because I have so many. I'd like to remember them.

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But they were on autopilot at cruise altitude, cruise speed. The sun is above them and slightly behind them.

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And the captain told me, face to face, sitting in the cockpit of this airplane later on when we reconstructed the whole event,

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that he was sitting back in his seat with his hands behind his head, just, you know, nobody's flying the airplane, it's flying itself.

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His co-pilot is turned in his seat, looking behind him to the flight engineer, talking about something.

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And the sky is blue and no cloud up ahead.

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Well, Captain Schultz told me that suddenly something caught his attention out to the left about 30 degrees of straight ahead and 30 degrees above the horizon.

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And so he concentrated on it, and he said it appeared very quickly, full size.

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It did not appear as a point and enlarged. That's important.

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He said it was as if the object had broken through the atmosphere, because as it appeared full size, little radiating lines seemed to appear, like stress cracks.

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He took a paper napkin that he had in the cockpit and he held two corners and he held two corners, and he pushed his thumb through the middle, like he was demonstrating this effect.

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Well, he said, what's that? He thought he'd have a mid-air collision. He was quite concerned.

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His first officer turned in his seat and could see it. I talked to both of them and got the same story.

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The object was silvery, reflected sunlight, the way polished metal would.

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Came down in altitude to his altitude. Did a high speed turn. I calculated about 30 Gs, roughly.

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And about a thousand miles an hour towards him, about a thousand miles an hour going away in a climb, which is significant.

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And as it's leaving, it leaves a wispy, dark smoke trail behind it. He didn't see it coming.

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He said that he immediately radioed the Milwaukee Center, like traffic troll, and said, do you have any other traffic up here with us?

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And they checked the radar and said, no, we have nobody up here. And he didn't report it, obviously.

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I met a Soviet fighter pilot who'd retired by the time I met him. This was approximately 1995, 1994 that I met him.

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And he came to Novosibirsk, where I was lecturing at the university there, to meet me, from Chelyabinsk.

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And because he had this story to tell, and he couldn't find anyone to tell it to. So I'd been there from America, and so he came over.

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Well, he was in a Czechoslovak two-place trainer, but he was alone in the cockpit, doing acrobatic training.

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It was a clear sunny day, very cold, as you might imagine, in the year old region.

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Well, he was doing acrobatic loops, vertical loops. And as he would come over the top and start down the other side, he was generally in the northern direction.

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And the city of Chelyabinsk, which is about one and a half million people, was to the north of him.

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And he said on three, I think three of these loops, as he got to the top of this loop and looked almost level now in the northern direction,

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here was a very long, grayish cigar, just hovering out there in front of him.

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Well, he was flabbergasted. I mean, he was shocked. He doesn't speak a word of English. So it was all in Russian.

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And he said to me that it didn't move, as far as he could tell. There was no background to compare, actually.

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But he was surprised it was above the city, because there was a lot of air defense at that time. This was before Spurshrek.

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And he did three of these loops, and each time it was in the same place, and he radiated the field where he had taken off from,

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which was to the south and east of the city, quite a ways.

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Do you have anything on radar? And they checked, nothing on radar. So they said, come back and land. Don't stay up there.

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He had no weapons on board the plane. It was just a training flight. So he did. He immediately went back,

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as he's getting ready to land, which would must have been ten minutes later, approximately, he happens to touch his face.

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He's wearing a leather flight helmet, no goggles, so it's unexposed around his eyes, and an oxygen mask.

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He gave me the oxygen mask as a souvenir. He said, I happened to touch my eye region and my nose,

256
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above where it was protected, and I couldn't feel anything. I was anesthetized.

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And he used the Russian word for cork. He said, my skin felt hard and puffy, and I had no sensation there, like cork.

258
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So he landed. He's getting a little concerned, right? Went right, got out of the airplane, went right to the dispensary,

259
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to the doctor. The doctor examined him and said, you have some sort of burns, skin burns.

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Come back and see me in a day if they don't repair. Well, he said, for about two and a half to three weeks,

261
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his skin, right in this open region here, puffed out, he said about a half an inch.

262
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Well, I talked to his wife when I was visiting years later in Chelyabinsk, and she backed up the story.

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She used her own words, but they backed up the story. She was scared, some sort of radiation she was concerned about.

264
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And eventually, after two, three weeks, it goes back to normal, and there's nothing remaining, by the way, today.

265
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He was very concerned, as you might imagine, and I said, would you be willing to let me hypnotize you?

266
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And this is only the second time I've had a pilot agree, and so in Russian, would you believe, I hypnotized this Russian pilot,

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the Soviet pilot, and he comes out with more details under hypnosis, which tells me that it's a valid technique,

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and I can't bias him in any significant way, because I don't know that cockpit that well.

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Later on, I studied the cockpit and the flight performance of the aircraft, and I can tell you the wavelength transmission of the windows,

270
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because I'm concerned of how many seconds he was exposed, assuming it was from that object.

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What is the radiation dose falling on the skin that would produce that level of effect, even though we don't know what it is?

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It was edema, it was a water buildup, but we don't understand the hardness, the quark effect, let's call it.

273
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It was a very interesting case from the Soviet Union.

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One case comes to mind, a pilot, and three passengers, two of whom were pilots themselves, were flying from Southern Florida up to North Carolina at night,

275
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in a twin-engine propeller plane, and Willie Smith did the analysis with Dr. Heineck years ago.

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The two of them interviewed the pilot.

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Well, they had electromagnetic problems with their VOR, which is part of the in-flight navigation system,

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such that it was drifting them farther and farther out to sea.

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They were over the Atlantic Ocean at the time.

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They were about 10 miles off the coast of Florida, and they could keep the land in sight, but there was not much traffic,

281
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and the air was as reasonable and so forth, smooth.

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Well, that's the first part of the story, that they're drifting more and more, so air traffic control, I think at Atlanta,

283
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calls them and says, where are you going?

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Correct your flight path, 10 degrees left, you know, get back to land, so to speak, because you're drifting further and further.

285
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And they check their VOR and find that it's correct, that it's reading correctly, even though the radar from the ground tells them they're in the wrong place, more and more.

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Well, this happens twice. They have two corrections in flight over about a 40-minute period.

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Well, at one point, off to the east of them in the dark night sky, they see a light coming towards them, and it's fairly fast, it's fairly bright.

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They think it's an airplane, so he flashes his landing lights, which is standard operating procedure, right?

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Just to signal they see you, because you don't want to have any collision, of course.

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The object comes towards them on a bearing about 40 degrees, about the 2 o'clock position, roughly, relative to their heading.

291
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It comes down to their altitude, and the witnesses claim that this was a triangle, an equilateral triangle, whose sides were vertical.

292
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You can think of that, so it isn't a thin triangle, it's a thick triangle, about six stories high, with a 60 feet, 70 feet thick,

293
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and at least, I forget that the estimate was hundreds of feet side to side to side on the three sides, and a triangular opening in the middle.

294
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And the pilot said it was such a huge opening that he was contemplating flying through the middle of this thing to avoid it.

295
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The object comes to an instantaneous stop at some unknown distance, but they don't know how far away it was,

296
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and reverses 180 degrees and goes off as it has come at a high speed, until it's out of sight.

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Well, as interesting as that case is, that's a non-erodynamic vehicle, as far as I'm concerned.

298
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It's not ball lightning, it's not birds, it's not a balloon, for lots of reasons.

299
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It's not stealth technology, because you'd never build anything that's stealth that way.

300
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We don't know its propulsion, it did not produce a shock wave.

301
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In that case, there were no electromagnetic effects as it was near the airplane.

302
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Perhaps the earlier effects, we don't know.

303
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It had very bright round lights, like headlights, along this 60 foot high front facing it.

304
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It flew front forward, by the way, not point forward.

305
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Each of these round lights were estimated to be six feet in diameter and white.

306
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So you can calculate the megawatts that are required to light those search lights up, whatever they are.

307
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And by the way, I don't think they're portholes and I don't think they're lights.

308
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I think they're a direct artifact of the propulsion system.

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While putting pen to paper has never been a problem for Richard Haynes, the same can't be said of Whitley-Strieber.

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Over the past decade, this most complex of characters has unleashed a mind-numbing series of books on UFOs

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ever since undergoing a traumatic abduction experience which deeply affected the man.

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But what, we wanted to know, had persuaded this gifted writer to set aside all talk of UFOs and abductions

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and instead produce an astonishing new book, warning of impending dangers to the global environment.

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The subject matter of the new book, which is called the Coming Global Superstorm, is sudden climate change.

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In the new scientists of November the 27th, 1999, there is a story about the North Atlantic Drift,

316
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which is a current that is vital to the weather of Europe.

317
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It states that this current is changing its strength because of global warming

318
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and that Europe is liable to get much colder very soon.

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A few days ago there was a violent storm that swept across Europe

320
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because apparently of the declining power of the North Atlantic Drift,

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the Coming Global Superstorm is about what happens as these currents that bring warm water up from the tropics fail.

322
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And the reason they will fail is that the water in the northern oceans is getting so warm

323
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that the heat pump effect between the tropics and the North is ending.

324
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And the ironic danger of global warming is not that things will get too hot

325
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but that they're going to get very much colder very suddenly and the first place at peril is Europe.

326
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That is essentially the thesis of this book.

327
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What was it, what was the catalyst if there was such a thing that inspired you to research, if you like, the environment

328
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and produce this book?

329
00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:48,020
Well, I was writing a book called The Edge with the radio show host Art Bell.

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We were working on it together when I had a meeting in Toronto with a gentleman who seemed to know a great deal

331
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about the way the planet works including giving me a quick two paragraph explanation of ice ages

332
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and the comment he also made was that this was about to happen again.

333
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And I took notes while he was talking and it was complex but I was able to sort them out well enough.

334
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And when I sorted them out I began to realize that what he had described was that the absolute edge of scientific knowledge

335
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of how the process of ice ages has taken place.

336
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And it was very interesting and I could also see that it was a very important warning because things were going to fall to pieces pretty soon

337
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and we really weren't looking for this, we didn't realize it.

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So Art and I decided to change the subject of the book and write about this.

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This gentleman that I met came to my room in the middle of the night at three o'clock in the morning

340
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and he seemed as human as you and me, he just was terribly brilliant.

341
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And there were many, many other things that he spoke about as well that I thought were richly insightful.

342
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It was a marvelous meeting and that was where it started.

343
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Now there's no mention whatsoever of UFOs or extraterrestrials or anything of that ilk in the book itself.

344
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But nonetheless, would it be fair to say that all of the so-called visitations, all of these global events,

345
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that some label UFO phenomena, some label contacts, some label all manner of things,

346
00:39:37,020 --> 00:39:44,020
would it be fair to say that all of this has now, if you like, you found a meaning for this,

347
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that the well-being, the safety, if you like, of our planet is uppermost in the importance, if you like, of the phenomena

348
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or whoever is behind the phenomena.

349
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The well-being of the planet and the voss is uppermost in my mind.

350
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I have taken from my experiences whatever I could to serve that,

351
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including trying to understand whether or not there really are aliens here.

352
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I tried hard to find this man to understand who he was and how he had gotten to where I was in the middle of the night

353
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when there was no one except just three or four people who even knew where I was.

354
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I was unable to do so.

355
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I consider him to be in some way connected with the phenomenon, but I don't know how he seemed to a totally human.

356
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The UFO Congress in Acapulco was a memorable event,

357
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made all the more so after the Pope gave his personal blessing to the organizers

358
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through his close friend and Catholic Church theologian, Monsignor Carado Balducci.

359
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The same Pope, who only a year before, had travelled to Mexico City

360
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and been greeted not just by millions on the ground below, but an extraordinary fleet of spheres which appeared directly overhead.

361
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The UFO Congress in Acapulco was a memorable event,

362
00:41:34,020 --> 00:41:39,020
made all the more so after the Pope gave his personal blessing to the organizers.

363
00:41:39,020 --> 00:41:44,020
The UFO Congress in Acapulco was a memorable event,

364
00:41:44,020 --> 00:41:49,020
made all the more so after the Pope gave his personal blessing to the organizers.

365
00:41:59,020 --> 00:42:02,020
The UFO Congress in Acapulco was a memorable event,

366
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made all the more so after the Pope gave his personal blessing to the organizers.

367
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For years, skeptics and debunkers and indeed some UFO researchers have poured scorn on the so-called fleets.

368
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They insist that the sphere-like objects are nothing more than balloons.

369
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However, during our visit to Acapulco, Russell Callaghan stumbled across a little known,

370
00:42:30,020 --> 00:42:33,020
but crucial fact that belies this argument.

371
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Here we are putting the final touches to another edition of UFO's Hard Evidence.

372
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Just reflecting on what Graham had to say there, the trip to Acapulco was indeed fantastic.

373
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It was a privilege to be invited there to speak.

374
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We actually showed the Mexican people some of the NASA footage that has got people talking across the globe really.

375
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By way of a thank you, let's be honest now,

376
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Mexico has provided some of the best rational UFO footage and images and accounts

377
00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:10,020
for the last 10 years from anywhere else on the world.

378
00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:15,020
And it's Jaime Massan who has been instrumental in making sure that this stuff goes out to people.

379
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We've done our bit, we've made sure that people see what Jaime's been presenting.

380
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Now, some people will have different feelings on some of the Mexican footage.

381
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For instance, we saw there, Roman Catholic city, or sorry, a Roman Catholic country,

382
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Mexico city alone has 22 million people, 98% of those are Roman Catholics.

383
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The Pope's visit was important and it meant a lot to those people.

384
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Shall we say that the fact that footage was recorded on the day of the Pope's visit isn't surprising.

385
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The Catholic Church, as we've seen in earlier editions of UFOs, had evidence and of course in the magazine.

386
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I'm embracing the subject in Mexico City.

387
00:44:01,020 --> 00:44:09,020
The word UFO is in the Vatican's own directory and Monsignor Carado Balducci seems to

388
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be at ease with the subject with the Mexican people.

389
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So much so that when we stood there on the Wednesday night and heard Carado Balducci deliver the Pope's personal blessing

390
00:44:21,020 --> 00:44:26,020
on the Congress and wishing it success and happiness to the people who were there.

391
00:44:26,020 --> 00:44:31,020
It's a milestone that wasn't talked about anywhere other than in Mexico.

392
00:44:31,020 --> 00:44:35,020
Surely that should make the news, you know, but that's another story.

393
00:44:35,020 --> 00:44:41,020
What we're talking about is how these fleets, the real McCoy, are they balloons?

394
00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:46,020
Are they hoaxes? Are they stars? Well, the stars for me, no.

395
00:44:46,020 --> 00:44:51,020
The skeptics seem to hang on to anything and everything that's feasible.

396
00:44:51,020 --> 00:44:54,020
Stars can't be stars in the day.

397
00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:56,020
These things are moving about for goodness sake.

398
00:44:56,020 --> 00:44:58,020
Look closely at the footage.

399
00:44:58,020 --> 00:45:00,020
They don't move in the same direction.

400
00:45:00,020 --> 00:45:02,020
These things wander around each other.

401
00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:07,020
The formations change, especially this one on the day of the Pope's arrival.

402
00:45:07,020 --> 00:45:10,020
The formations are constantly changing.

403
00:45:10,020 --> 00:45:12,020
Birds don't fly like that.

404
00:45:12,020 --> 00:45:15,020
Birds tend to stay together and move together.

405
00:45:15,020 --> 00:45:27,020
And if we watch carefully, we can see that there's different motion, different speeds within the actual fleet of la Tiller or whatever you'd like to refer to it as.

406
00:45:27,020 --> 00:45:29,020
We don't know what they are.

407
00:45:29,020 --> 00:45:36,020
One thing that I'm fast becoming to accept that they aren't are balloons.

408
00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:50,020
Now, we've heard over the years and last year there were some remarkable footage shot in the south of England that the people at the television company who recorded this footage didn't want to share it with anyone.

409
00:45:50,020 --> 00:46:01,020
The only people who saw it were those fortunate to be in the south of England on the night of the newscast or if someone's been fortunate to see a recording of this thing.

410
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:06,020
Leading researchers in this country turn around and say, oh, these are just balloons.

411
00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:09,020
Well, Mexico City is a little bit different.

412
00:46:09,020 --> 00:46:13,020
This country, six, seven hundred feet above sea level is the norm.

413
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:21,020
The high peaks up on the moors of Yorkshire and up in the Cumbria Mountains, a thousand, a thousand one hundred feet above sea level.

414
00:46:21,020 --> 00:46:23,020
That's nothing.

415
00:46:23,020 --> 00:46:27,020
You know, Mexico City is thousands and thousands of metres above sea.

416
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:36,020
Staying with Jaime who lives in Mexico City itself, I can tell you climbing the stairs to bed on a night was something of a task.

417
00:46:36,020 --> 00:46:39,020
You know, the breath is drawn away from you.

418
00:46:39,020 --> 00:46:49,020
It took me five or seven days just to be able to feel comfortable with the high altitude and the low air content or the low oxygen content within the air.

419
00:46:49,020 --> 00:46:52,020
This poses a problem for things like this.

420
00:46:52,020 --> 00:47:00,020
During the Congress, a young man was there every day with this corona advertising blimp, advertising the Congress, but he was tethered.

421
00:47:00,020 --> 00:47:03,020
And I thought, well, surely going to fly this damn thing.

422
00:47:03,020 --> 00:47:06,020
It was beautiful weather, you know, it was 90 degrees in the shade.

423
00:47:06,020 --> 00:47:08,020
There wasn't a breath of wind.

424
00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:10,020
There shouldn't have been problems.

425
00:47:10,020 --> 00:47:21,020
I spoke to him and in broken English, he explained quite simply that the problem is the altitude in Mexico, more so Mexico City than Acapulco,

426
00:47:21,020 --> 00:47:25,020
because Acapulco is only a few hundred feet above the sea.

427
00:47:25,020 --> 00:47:36,020
But the quality of helium gas that's to go into these things to fill them makes the expense enormous to fill one of these blimps with high quality helium to get lift.

428
00:47:36,020 --> 00:47:43,020
Because of the altitude of Mexico City, even when we get these things buoyant, he described them as being lazy.

429
00:47:43,020 --> 00:47:46,020
They fly very lazily in the sky.

430
00:47:46,020 --> 00:47:48,020
Yes, children's balloons are available.

431
00:47:48,020 --> 00:47:54,020
We've seen the cartoon characters, the little silver balloons, and I've seen them where people have let go of them.

432
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:56,020
And they don't achieve a great height.

433
00:47:56,020 --> 00:48:06,020
These things seem to saunter about at 10, 15 feet above the ground and end up getting caught in the electricity cables that are only maybe 20 feet above the road.

434
00:48:06,020 --> 00:48:13,020
Now that's due quite simply to the atmosphere, the air conditions in Mexico City.

435
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:17,020
Again, very high altitude, very thin air.

436
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:20,020
The helium just can't lift the balloons.

437
00:48:20,020 --> 00:48:29,020
And to say that a fleet of balloons could be released, hundreds of balloons in the pope's image, we've counted 50 different things there, 50 different images.

438
00:48:29,020 --> 00:48:43,020
If this was the case, and these things are flying at several thousand feet, the volume of helium gas and the expense of helium gas to fill these balloons to achieve this sort of lift

439
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:48,020
would put you in the category of paying somewhere around about 15 or 20 pounds of balloon.

440
00:48:48,020 --> 00:48:51,020
Mexican people don't earn that in a week.

441
00:48:51,020 --> 00:48:54,020
Ask yourself the question, are they going to pay that for a balloon?

442
00:48:54,020 --> 00:48:58,020
No, I do not think these are balloons.

443
00:48:58,020 --> 00:49:06,020
As we approach the dawn of a new millennium, something else of potentially huge importance was taking place on the other side of the world.

444
00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:16,020
On the 26th of December, the Phenomena exhibition opened its doors at the Fremantle passenger terminal near Perth, Western Australia.

445
00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:31,020
Some two years in the planning and a solid year in the making, the organisers of Phenomena intend to clone the exhibition and, through a worldwide franchising operation, help further educate tens of millions as to the reality of this subject.

446
00:49:32,020 --> 00:49:45,020
Occupying some 12,000 square feet of space and employing some of the very latest visual and display technology, the exhibition is composed of several pods, each comprising of a particular theme.

447
00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:58,020
UFO magazine has worked closely with the exhibition organisers during the past two years and made a sizeable contribution in terms of literature, fact-finding, images and videotape material.

448
00:49:58,020 --> 00:50:13,020
Elsewhere, Dr. Roger Lear has supported the venture by kindly donating some of his prize surgically removed implants, while a mysterious sphere that fell to earth in Mexico several years ago was loaned by Hamim Hasan

449
00:50:13,020 --> 00:50:16,020
and housed in an impressive glass casing.

450
00:50:17,020 --> 00:50:29,020
So join with us now as we wander through this truly unique exhibition, one that will reopen its doors in Sydney later in the year and later appear in towns and cities across the globe.

451
00:51:13,020 --> 00:51:15,020
Thank you.

452
00:51:44,020 --> 00:51:50,020
Welcome to the International UFO Congress and Film Convention.

453
00:51:50,020 --> 00:51:55,020
The largest UFO conference of its type stays anywhere in the world.

454
00:51:57,020 --> 00:52:04,020
The International UFO Congress is the largest UFO conference in the world.

455
00:52:04,020 --> 00:52:10,300
us to Loughlin, Nevada, home to the International UFO Congress and Film Convention, the largest

456
00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:14,980
UFO conference of its type staged anywhere in the world.

457
00:52:14,980 --> 00:52:19,860
Once more, our cameras were present to record several on-the-spot interviews with some of

458
00:52:19,860 --> 00:52:22,300
the key speakers.

459
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:27,820
Larry Warren is no stranger to UK shores, but did he have anything new to add to those

460
00:52:27,820 --> 00:52:32,740
events he first described in his book Left at East Gate, which claimed, among other

461
00:52:32,740 --> 00:52:40,460
things, that a UFO appeared over Rendlesham Forest in December 1980?

462
00:52:40,460 --> 00:52:44,660
Cameras and such like were taken into the woods over this period of time, but nobody

463
00:52:44,660 --> 00:52:47,500
until now has ever seen any images.

464
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:49,100
You produced images.

465
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:50,300
Tell us about that.

466
00:52:50,300 --> 00:52:55,460
The images that I showed, I showed one picture which didn't reproduce very well.

467
00:52:55,460 --> 00:53:00,540
We'll work on that glitch for leads, sorted out by then.

468
00:53:01,060 --> 00:53:04,780
What happened to me since our book came out, and of course we really did have a great

469
00:53:04,780 --> 00:53:09,260
deal of success as far as reaching people in England and feeling empowered, that this

470
00:53:09,260 --> 00:53:14,780
event is your Roswell and it is something not to be ashamed of or not look at.

471
00:53:14,780 --> 00:53:18,940
It's something you don't really sink your teeth into and get involved.

472
00:53:18,940 --> 00:53:24,140
Well, having a book come out and with the advent of the Internet, which I'm not up on

473
00:53:24,140 --> 00:53:31,140
unfortunately yet, a lot of witnesses that went through these events had no idea that

474
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:32,940
word one had been mentioned about it.

475
00:53:32,940 --> 00:53:35,300
They went on with their careers.

476
00:53:35,300 --> 00:53:40,420
They retired, and in the last few years, five years or so, we've seen most of the people

477
00:53:40,420 --> 00:53:44,820
I was with either long out of the military starting to see the stuff come up on their

478
00:53:44,820 --> 00:53:51,220
computers or seeing the book on television, Benthwater's my god, it's out.

479
00:53:51,820 --> 00:53:56,620
On the Internet, easily accessing it because there's the Benthwater's alumni site, people

480
00:53:56,620 --> 00:54:00,660
that were stationed there over a 40-year period, and they're starting to see, well,

481
00:54:00,660 --> 00:54:04,340
this is the UFO thing, it's out, and then they found it.

482
00:54:04,340 --> 00:54:08,860
What happened to Peter and I is that through our publisher, back when they did cooperate

483
00:54:08,860 --> 00:54:14,540
with us and before they decided to keep the book sales, is that we would get letters forwarded

484
00:54:14,540 --> 00:54:19,980
to us, and many times they're from regular folks that come to these conferences, and

485
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:25,940
more often than I started to find they were from very key players in this event that were

486
00:54:25,940 --> 00:54:29,340
higher ranked than I or equivalent rank.

487
00:54:29,340 --> 00:54:34,060
Some were friends, some I knew peripherally, saying, good for you, glad you did it.

488
00:54:34,060 --> 00:54:39,940
A few were, I have to be honest, saying, well, I don't remember any of this.

489
00:54:39,940 --> 00:54:44,300
A number of them were my god, it filled in the gap because I couldn't get off my post

490
00:54:44,300 --> 00:54:45,300
that night.

491
00:54:45,620 --> 00:54:51,100
But it also countered, and will counter over this next year, is that I've been accused

492
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:57,740
of it all, we all know this, but over the years people have said that there was a rumor

493
00:54:57,740 --> 00:55:00,380
mill, and so anyone could have picked up on this information.

494
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:04,660
It will be very apparent to people over the next year that there was no rumor mill when

495
00:55:04,660 --> 00:55:10,660
people that worked on our flight that didn't get out there had no idea what had happened.

496
00:55:10,660 --> 00:55:14,380
At all, it was that clamped down, like some senior people said.

497
00:55:14,380 --> 00:55:18,580
I got a letter, first of all, that said, I want to thank you for what you did.

498
00:55:18,580 --> 00:55:21,540
This is leading to the pictures.

499
00:55:21,540 --> 00:55:25,940
They came out and this gentleman said to me, and I'm holding his name right now because

500
00:55:25,940 --> 00:55:29,380
he's not sure what he would like to actually be dealing with this.

501
00:55:29,380 --> 00:55:33,460
I said, I don't know if I'm too controversial, I shouldn't be the guy.

502
00:55:33,460 --> 00:55:38,820
His view, counter view on that is that I've done this from the beginning.

503
00:55:38,820 --> 00:55:41,180
He's watched it develop.

504
00:55:41,180 --> 00:55:44,740
He said no matter what they do to you, you keep coming back.

505
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:50,580
He has children, he has a lot to lose as an executive now.

506
00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:52,580
He took these pictures as he told me.

507
00:55:52,580 --> 00:55:54,620
I have all of it in his own handwriting.

508
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:59,220
I even have the negatives, the original negatives that can be analyzed and will.

509
00:55:59,220 --> 00:56:01,360
I've sat on these for two years.

510
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,620
Even my dear co-author, Pete, has been very nervous about these.

511
00:56:04,620 --> 00:56:07,180
I think I've frightened of them.

512
00:56:07,180 --> 00:56:11,940
I have shown a few people and over the years I think it's one more nail in the coffin.

513
00:56:11,940 --> 00:56:14,700
Oh, Jesus, this guy might be right for God's sake.

514
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:16,740
A lot of people don't want that to be right.

515
00:56:16,740 --> 00:56:17,740
I don't want to be right.

516
00:56:17,740 --> 00:56:18,860
I want to know what happened tonight.

517
00:56:18,860 --> 00:56:22,820
He told me I have these pictures and I'm like, look, I'm not even an expert on this.

518
00:56:22,820 --> 00:56:25,740
I have enough to deal with on my plate.

519
00:56:25,740 --> 00:56:31,380
Basically this guy was involved on the first night, snapped pictures with a Canon camera

520
00:56:31,380 --> 00:56:36,740
that was in the back of a law enforcement car for accident investigation.

521
00:56:36,780 --> 00:56:40,420
He took the film, they encountered, this is literally when they were thinking they were

522
00:56:40,420 --> 00:56:46,540
encountering a crash plane, started taking pictures of this triangular object as described

523
00:56:46,540 --> 00:56:50,380
as seen in some of the reports that are coming out from the next day now.

524
00:56:50,380 --> 00:56:51,820
Same lighting configuration.

525
00:56:51,820 --> 00:56:54,820
It has density to the triangle, a black triangle.

526
00:56:54,820 --> 00:56:58,780
It doesn't look like what I saw two nights later at all.

527
00:56:58,780 --> 00:56:59,900
It really doesn't.

528
00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:04,940
But it does match exactly the verbal descriptions and written descriptions of the gentleman on

529
00:57:04,940 --> 00:57:05,940
the first night.

530
00:57:05,980 --> 00:57:08,300
He did something quite unique with the film.

531
00:57:08,300 --> 00:57:09,300
Amazing.

532
00:57:09,300 --> 00:57:15,300
What he did, he was higher ranked and had been in the game, knew this was extreme significance.

533
00:57:15,300 --> 00:57:18,900
These gentlemen did experience missing time, which they're having a great deal of problems

534
00:57:18,900 --> 00:57:19,900
with.

535
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:28,140
These people are now seeking out UFO or experience your friendly therapist to heal some things

536
00:57:28,140 --> 00:57:32,660
that are in their lives, the memories.

537
00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:37,300
He took the film, what he did is that with his knowledge of this, he said this film will

538
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:40,620
never be seen again.

539
00:57:40,620 --> 00:57:45,660
To another person that was with him, he took the camera, he fired off pictures.

540
00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:50,740
The first picture I showed today is taken at a distance of 150 feet approximately in

541
00:57:50,740 --> 00:57:51,740
a clearing.

542
00:57:51,740 --> 00:57:54,780
I know exactly where this clearing is and have been bringing people there for years.

543
00:57:54,780 --> 00:58:00,460
It's not the site on the third night on Capel Green, it's before that.

544
00:58:00,460 --> 00:58:03,740
He took the fire that first shot.

545
00:58:03,740 --> 00:58:07,980
His sense in his heart is that this phenomenon knew they were there.

546
00:58:07,980 --> 00:58:13,620
The clicking of the camera told, he sensed because it started moving toward him.

547
00:58:13,620 --> 00:58:17,100
He took that picture, he got pictures within five feet of it.

548
00:58:17,100 --> 00:58:21,980
He is not the Jim Peniston who touched the object and had the telepathy.

549
00:58:21,980 --> 00:58:24,300
I believe what Peniston says about that.

550
00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:27,140
I believe that was said to him by whatever was in.

551
00:58:27,140 --> 00:58:32,300
This gentleman continued to fire pictures often but because of the, he thought he had

552
00:58:32,300 --> 00:58:35,220
taken at least 15 to 20.

553
00:58:35,220 --> 00:58:36,900
I have seven.

554
00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:40,220
I have the actual film, they just go blank.

555
00:58:40,220 --> 00:58:43,580
But there's a moment where radio contact was cut off in that forest.

556
00:58:43,580 --> 00:58:49,300
CSC couldn't reach these guys for four hours and this is where I believe and other things

557
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:50,620
happen.

558
00:58:50,620 --> 00:58:57,020
Rod Regia has worked on several classified projects involving satellite surveillance technology.

559
00:58:57,020 --> 00:59:02,660
In his lecture, Regia demonstrated how some UFO activity had unquestionably been recorded

560
00:59:02,660 --> 00:59:04,340
from space.

561
00:59:04,340 --> 00:59:08,540
But how important are satellites to this subject and what are the future?

562
00:59:08,540 --> 00:59:13,340
I started working in the aerospace industry as an aeronautical, astronautical engineer

563
00:59:13,340 --> 00:59:17,340
in 1964.

564
00:59:17,340 --> 00:59:22,580
I worked on the Saturn Apollo moon rocket and my job was to design the interface wiring

565
00:59:22,580 --> 00:59:27,460
between the various elements of the rocket at different stages.

566
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:33,780
Then I worked on the first space station, the Skylab, which readers and viewers will know

567
00:59:33,780 --> 00:59:36,220
impacted Australia several years ago.

568
00:59:36,220 --> 00:59:38,980
I'd love to have a presentation for that.

569
00:59:38,980 --> 00:59:47,500
And then moved on to a small company in California that's primarily designing remote sensors

570
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:50,660
that has nothing to do with the psychological remote sensors.

571
00:59:50,660 --> 00:59:55,740
These are items designed to detect events at a far distance.

572
00:59:55,740 --> 01:00:02,100
I always like to indicate, and I didn't in this presentation, but that there's a paranoia

573
01:00:02,100 --> 01:00:08,700
that starts to develop amongst people when they're around spy satellites and other things.

574
01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:11,660
They see maybe too many movies or something.

575
01:00:11,660 --> 01:00:17,340
I guarantee you these satellites cost millions and billions of dollars and their operation

576
01:00:17,340 --> 01:00:20,900
runs into the millions of dollars per day.

577
01:00:20,900 --> 01:00:26,060
Our 15 minutes of satellite data is a computer printout a little over six inches thick of

578
01:00:26,060 --> 01:00:32,060
which we have technicians wade through it to get some of the items that don't pass muster,

579
01:00:32,060 --> 01:00:33,980
so to speak, in the first breath.

580
01:00:33,980 --> 01:00:39,580
And so what we have is a tremendous amount of data and for the resources to be spent

581
01:00:39,580 --> 01:00:45,220
on determining who's visiting whom and what meeting, it would be in the intelligence agency's

582
01:00:45,220 --> 01:00:50,100
best interest to pick up the telephone and have the local sheriff or police drop by and

583
01:00:50,100 --> 01:00:55,660
pay them a visit rather than to vote a very expensive reconnaissance satellite to take

584
01:00:55,660 --> 01:01:00,420
pictures of the licensed places of the automobiles in the front yard.

585
01:01:00,420 --> 01:01:05,020
When viewing conditions are right, we can read the newspaper that's on the front yard

586
01:01:05,020 --> 01:01:07,820
of somebody's house for deep space.

587
01:01:07,820 --> 01:01:09,340
We can do that.

588
01:01:09,340 --> 01:01:13,100
And we've been able to do that for years.

589
01:01:13,100 --> 01:01:20,900
More important though is we can also use these for beneficial measures that beyond the surreptitious

590
01:01:20,900 --> 01:01:26,620
observation of our neighbors and that is to look out to exploit mineral deposits, find

591
01:01:26,620 --> 01:01:30,660
oil fields, look at pollution tracking.

592
01:01:30,660 --> 01:01:35,740
For law enforcement, we can track vehicles that may present a problem to us.

593
01:01:35,740 --> 01:01:37,300
We can watch troop movements.

594
01:01:37,300 --> 01:01:42,100
We can see refugees and maybe allocate resources.

595
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:44,220
We can look for prop failures.

596
01:01:44,220 --> 01:01:50,940
You liken this to possibly the major event in terms of credibility of eyewitness reports

597
01:01:50,940 --> 01:01:54,740
in terms of the data and the like.

598
01:01:54,740 --> 01:01:59,660
How significant do you think it is therefore that we have collaboration, if you like, from

599
01:01:59,660 --> 01:02:06,260
an American reconnaissance satellite that something was over Tehran at that time?

600
01:02:06,260 --> 01:02:12,820
I think the primary importance was that it demonstrated graphically, I believe, for the

601
01:02:12,820 --> 01:02:17,580
first time both the capability and the limitations.

602
01:02:17,580 --> 01:02:18,900
We spotted this thing.

603
01:02:18,900 --> 01:02:20,420
We had it.

604
01:02:20,420 --> 01:02:23,340
And yet we were defenseless against it.

605
01:02:23,340 --> 01:02:29,780
Fortunately, I think we were able to sort of sit back and say, it's happening to a neighbor

606
01:02:29,780 --> 01:02:34,340
and therefore we can fully observe it as opposed to it's happening in my front yard and I must

607
01:02:34,420 --> 01:02:38,380
worry to defend my family against it.

608
01:02:38,380 --> 01:02:40,580
I think that allowed us to put ends to the major.

609
01:02:40,580 --> 01:02:45,420
I know one of them was the improved communication system that enabled us to get the information

610
01:02:45,420 --> 01:02:47,100
back sooner.

611
01:02:47,100 --> 01:02:52,580
I think that the lessons learned from the Tehran were instrumental in helping us in the Gulf

612
01:02:52,580 --> 01:02:59,580
War because we greatly increased our capability between those two events in a short period

613
01:02:59,580 --> 01:03:04,220
of time when we were talking about the time lag in military procurement and the activities

614
01:03:04,220 --> 01:03:06,820
to go along.

615
01:03:06,820 --> 01:03:13,020
Intrigued to learn of the post-Teran reports as this thing spent through the Mediterranean

616
01:03:13,020 --> 01:03:20,660
and out towards Atlantic, presumably then was there no means for the satellite technology?

617
01:03:20,660 --> 01:03:24,460
It might have obviously been passed on to another satellite, I don't know.

618
01:03:24,460 --> 01:03:30,300
No data suggests that this thing was tracked by satellite at that time.

619
01:03:30,300 --> 01:03:33,460
Our satellite did not track it.

620
01:03:33,460 --> 01:03:41,300
What I believe happened is as they changed energy states, they become the spectrum of

621
01:03:41,300 --> 01:03:46,340
observation shifts and when they change energy states, we get to the point where we can't

622
01:03:46,340 --> 01:03:47,340
really be tracked.

623
01:03:47,340 --> 01:03:52,860
That's where I said the ultraviolet would be good for that visible light.

624
01:03:52,860 --> 01:03:55,780
When they reach a high energy state, they disappear.

625
01:03:55,780 --> 01:03:59,580
Where do you think satellite technology is going to be, say, 10, 20 years hence from

626
01:03:59,580 --> 01:04:03,260
now and what impact do you think, generally speaking, that's going to have here for people

627
01:04:03,260 --> 01:04:04,260
on Earth?

628
01:04:04,260 --> 01:04:10,260
I believe the big push that we've already seen at start is we'll be on Earth resources

629
01:04:10,260 --> 01:04:11,260
management.

630
01:04:11,260 --> 01:04:19,260
I mean that as the population continues to grow, we need to find new oil deposits to

631
01:04:19,260 --> 01:04:27,220
exploit, we need new mineral deposits, we need to really vigorously pursue monitoring

632
01:04:27,220 --> 01:04:31,460
the cleanliness of our water and our atmosphere.

633
01:04:31,460 --> 01:04:37,260
Where are the sources of pollution and we can do that readily from space.

634
01:04:37,260 --> 01:04:41,740
The person who's doing the pollution can be tracked down and not his innocent neighbor.

635
01:04:41,740 --> 01:04:45,420
We happen to have a smaller checkbook.

636
01:04:45,420 --> 01:04:52,900
The biggest thing of growth area I see is enabling you and me to have a much better

637
01:04:52,900 --> 01:04:59,620
life as a result of applying this technology to our day-to-day living experiences.

638
01:04:59,620 --> 01:05:06,660
Traffic patterns, cattle and animal migrations, there's all manner of, we're only limited

639
01:05:06,660 --> 01:05:15,260
by our imagination, by what we can see looking down at this beautiful planet of ours and

640
01:05:16,100 --> 01:05:20,900
trying to monitor and care for it and nurture it and I think we've got an opportunity to

641
01:05:20,900 --> 01:05:24,260
do that now that we've never had before.

642
01:05:24,260 --> 01:05:30,020
At the beginning of the year, Peter Gerstin, head of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, challenged

643
01:05:30,020 --> 01:05:35,540
the US government in court to come clean about its knowledge of flying triangles.

644
01:05:35,540 --> 01:05:39,860
After winning a preliminary judgment in his favor, he later lost the argument when the

645
01:05:39,860 --> 01:05:42,660
judge ruled in favor of the government.

646
01:05:42,660 --> 01:05:47,500
Although this interview was conducted before the appeal, it nonetheless affords a fascinating

647
01:05:47,500 --> 01:05:53,780
insight into the mindset and thinking behind one of UFO's most influential characters.

648
01:05:53,780 --> 01:06:00,220
Peter, fantastic interest throughout the UK in the recent trials and tribulations shall

649
01:06:00,220 --> 01:06:09,220
we say regarding your efforts to challenge various government departments as to the dissemination

650
01:06:09,220 --> 01:06:14,620
if you will of documented information relating to triangular craft.

651
01:06:14,620 --> 01:06:21,620
You're the man on the spot shall we say, how would you appraise the current situation?

652
01:06:21,620 --> 01:06:26,340
I mean this is quite a unique thing isn't it, to get the judge to actually side with

653
01:06:26,340 --> 01:06:27,340
you.

654
01:06:27,340 --> 01:06:31,220
Oh yes, this is the first time it causes broad citizens against UFO secrecy.

655
01:06:31,220 --> 01:06:34,020
In the last 20 years it has brought maybe six lawsuits.

656
01:06:34,020 --> 01:06:39,140
This is the first time the judge has been receptive to my arguments, receptive to the

657
01:06:39,140 --> 01:06:45,580
point of directing a governmental agency to provide a UFO group with additional information.

658
01:06:45,580 --> 01:06:53,460
Now what is it about the triangles that you feel is so significant or is this just a part

659
01:06:53,460 --> 01:06:55,780
of the whole big picture here?

660
01:06:55,780 --> 01:06:57,700
Well you're right on both accounts.

661
01:06:57,700 --> 01:07:03,020
Number one it's part of the big picture but it also involves an object the size of a football

662
01:07:03,020 --> 01:07:08,300
field that can hover or what's described from witnesses as floating which is unusual

663
01:07:08,300 --> 01:07:14,300
described in mechanical craft that can accelerate rapidly, attain high speeds that's virtually

664
01:07:14,300 --> 01:07:19,940
noiseless that has orbs around the sides that detach and attach.

665
01:07:19,940 --> 01:07:25,300
I think that since this object is being seen in populated areas over the last 20 years

666
01:07:25,300 --> 01:07:29,620
not only in this country but in England, in Belgium and other countries I think it's

667
01:07:29,620 --> 01:07:33,800
this time we found out about it and what's more significant is that when we inquired

668
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:39,260
of this object from the Department of Defense they told us they conducted a reasonable search

669
01:07:39,260 --> 01:07:42,260
and can find no information on this object.

670
01:07:42,260 --> 01:07:44,580
As far as I'm concerned they're lying to us.

671
01:07:44,580 --> 01:07:50,740
It can't be possible because they searched the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency

672
01:07:50,740 --> 01:07:52,380
and they had no information.

673
01:07:52,380 --> 01:07:57,660
They searched the Joint Chiefs of Staff and they had no information and the Department

674
01:07:57,660 --> 01:08:02,860
of Defense is charged with gathering intelligence and providing security for the citizens of

675
01:08:02,860 --> 01:08:07,380
this country so how can they not know about an object that's seen at treetop level in

676
01:08:07,380 --> 01:08:12,980
populated areas over major cities in this age of terrorism?

677
01:08:12,980 --> 01:08:16,260
Well the Department of Defense for whatever reason has not come to the courtroom, has

678
01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:18,620
not sent any attorneys.

679
01:08:18,620 --> 01:08:25,180
They are represented by the US Attorney's Office and they just tow the party line.

680
01:08:25,180 --> 01:08:29,020
They treat this as any other freedom of information request.

681
01:08:29,020 --> 01:08:30,780
The agency does the search.

682
01:08:30,780 --> 01:08:33,340
If they don't find documents they move to dismiss it.

683
01:08:33,340 --> 01:08:35,460
On the grounds a reasonable search was done.

684
01:08:35,460 --> 01:08:39,020
If they find documents they either release them or withhold them on national security

685
01:08:39,020 --> 01:08:41,820
grounds and that's what I thought this case would be about.

686
01:08:41,820 --> 01:08:45,940
Department of Defense would find documents and say national security as they did in

687
01:08:45,940 --> 01:08:48,220
the other cases cause brought and that would be the end of it.

688
01:08:48,220 --> 01:08:51,700
No judge has gone against that ruling but they didn't.

689
01:08:51,700 --> 01:08:53,620
They stated they found no documents.

690
01:08:53,620 --> 01:08:55,140
They did a reasonable search.

691
01:08:55,140 --> 01:08:58,980
So the US Attorney is just putting forward that position that they didn't have to do

692
01:08:58,980 --> 01:09:00,820
an exhaustive search.

693
01:09:00,820 --> 01:09:02,460
All they had to do was a reasonable search.

694
01:09:02,460 --> 01:09:03,540
They did a reasonable search.

695
01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:04,980
There are no documents.

696
01:09:04,980 --> 01:09:11,220
What we submitted, what citizens against UFO secrecy submitted was 33 affidavits from

697
01:09:11,220 --> 01:09:17,020
people that actually saw the object were willing to come forward, put it down on tape and then

698
01:09:17,020 --> 01:09:18,920
swear to the contents.

699
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:20,540
So we submitted this to the judge.

700
01:09:20,540 --> 01:09:24,300
Said judge, look this object exists judge.

701
01:09:24,300 --> 01:09:29,700
It exists not only over the last 20 years but it was seen last month.

702
01:09:29,700 --> 01:09:31,340
So how could they not have information?

703
01:09:31,340 --> 01:09:34,460
How could they have done a reasonable search and not found anything?

704
01:09:34,460 --> 01:09:39,460
And the judge was convinced that at least at this level they have to provide us with

705
01:09:39,460 --> 01:09:42,340
more information telling us about their search.

706
01:09:42,340 --> 01:09:46,980
The obvious question then arises where are we going with this now?

707
01:09:46,980 --> 01:09:52,580
Where does Peter Gerstin and Citizens Against UFO secrecy hope to take this now?

708
01:09:52,580 --> 01:09:53,580
What's the next step?

709
01:09:53,580 --> 01:09:56,860
We hope to go where no group has gone before.

710
01:09:56,860 --> 01:10:03,180
We hope to go into the darkest recesses of these governmental agencies to search for

711
01:10:03,180 --> 01:10:08,340
the truth and to end the secrecy.

712
01:10:08,340 --> 01:10:13,740
Although Bob and Ryan would kindly spoke of their majestic 12 research in Acapulco, here

713
01:10:13,740 --> 01:10:18,860
at Loughlin, Ryan took the opportunity to share with us just a part of his massive image

714
01:10:18,860 --> 01:10:19,860
portfolio.

715
01:10:19,860 --> 01:10:29,900
The example, this happens to be on phone records for 30 June 47 back to Roswell.

716
01:10:29,900 --> 01:10:36,900
There's other documents, here's one on 14 July 47 all talking about phone records.

717
01:10:36,900 --> 01:10:41,420
Basically there's a big complaint that people are using the phone too much and that only

718
01:10:41,420 --> 01:10:45,460
certain top level brass can use the phone back to Washington because the lines are always

719
01:10:45,460 --> 01:10:46,460
jammed.

720
01:10:46,460 --> 01:10:52,820
Now talk about good circumstantial evidence and it's right here in historical typewriter

721
01:10:52,820 --> 01:10:55,860
on negative off microfilm.

722
01:10:55,860 --> 01:11:01,460
For somebody to fake this is an incredible amount of work for an unclear nebulous purpose.

723
01:11:01,460 --> 01:11:07,900
This is the envelope where the other 77 pictures came addressed to Tim Cooper and postmarked

724
01:11:07,900 --> 01:11:10,620
McLean, Virginia.

725
01:11:10,620 --> 01:11:14,820
And what was in this envelope was a series of color pictures which I've broken into

726
01:11:14,820 --> 01:11:24,780
several different categories, craft back channels, group photos, documents, MJ12 portraits

727
01:11:24,780 --> 01:11:27,660
and then autopsy.

728
01:11:27,660 --> 01:11:34,540
One of the craft pictures was a picture of the X-plane.

729
01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:41,340
And the X-plane is noteworthy in our documents because it's an experimental aircraft that

730
01:11:41,340 --> 01:11:46,220
crashed in New Mexico along the same time as one of the UFOs.

731
01:11:46,220 --> 01:11:52,180
And it's the earliest experimental aircraft which the U2 spy plane was based upon.

732
01:11:52,180 --> 01:11:56,180
It was made by Convair.

733
01:11:56,180 --> 01:12:04,220
I'll mention this one for a second.

734
01:12:04,220 --> 01:12:10,340
This is an unusual looking craft that says DOD video.

735
01:12:10,340 --> 01:12:15,980
And what I just realized really after watching Wendell Stephens give his talk is that this

736
01:12:15,980 --> 01:12:23,740
looks very similar to the egg beater type craft that was near Area 51 or was alleged

737
01:12:23,740 --> 01:12:30,380
to come from Area 51 with these funny looking protrusions.

738
01:12:30,380 --> 01:12:38,100
So I think that this is actually a U.S. built craft of some sort and not extraterrestrial.

739
01:12:38,100 --> 01:12:48,540
And that brings up a whole new thought in my mind of am I getting junk along with...

740
01:12:48,540 --> 01:12:53,820
This is a picture of sort of an unknown object.

741
01:12:53,820 --> 01:12:59,660
It's unclear and it's not sure that we don't have it right side up or upside down.

742
01:13:00,660 --> 01:13:08,780
But it looks like a spacecraft of some sort although there seems to be like rivets or

743
01:13:08,780 --> 01:13:18,500
spark plug like edges which are consistent with some other witness testimony for craft.

744
01:13:18,500 --> 01:13:26,540
A couple of Russian or KGB officers, an MJ-12 back channel, we don't know his name.

745
01:13:26,540 --> 01:13:32,580
This one is a KGB intelligence chief.

746
01:13:32,580 --> 01:13:35,220
I can't remember his name right off the bat.

747
01:13:35,220 --> 01:13:36,460
But you have IDMG IDES.

748
01:13:36,460 --> 01:13:42,740
Yes, one of our friends has got a name.

749
01:13:42,740 --> 01:13:49,500
And then here's a group picture of a variety of the MJ-12 players.

750
01:13:49,500 --> 01:13:56,220
Forrestal being front and center with Van and Berg and Bradley over here.

751
01:13:56,220 --> 01:13:58,620
This is an admiral of some sort.

752
01:13:58,620 --> 01:14:01,980
He has a naval uniform on.

753
01:14:01,980 --> 01:14:03,180
But I don't know his name.

754
01:14:03,180 --> 01:14:07,220
And this one around the table.

755
01:14:07,220 --> 01:14:08,220
Okay.

756
01:14:08,220 --> 01:14:09,220
Which is...

757
01:14:09,220 --> 01:14:10,220
Yeah.

758
01:14:10,220 --> 01:14:20,060
And this is a picture of the scientific advisory board in 1947 with Peter von Karman at the

759
01:14:20,060 --> 01:14:24,780
head of the table and the label of MJ-12.

760
01:14:24,780 --> 01:14:31,340
It's not clear if everyone was cleared or briefed for MJ-12, but I think that many people

761
01:14:31,340 --> 01:14:33,940
were involved and involved in the reverse engineering.

762
01:14:33,940 --> 01:14:38,740
It may have been parceled out and they've only given one aspect of the problem to work

763
01:14:38,740 --> 01:14:39,740
on.

764
01:14:39,740 --> 01:14:48,020
But these people were most likely involved in a serious way.

765
01:14:48,020 --> 01:14:53,660
Earlier, we mentioned how Dr. Roger Lear had kindly donated some of his surgically removed

766
01:14:53,660 --> 01:14:56,620
implants to the Phenomena Exhibition.

767
01:14:56,620 --> 01:14:58,180
But what is it about these impl...

768
01:14:58,180 --> 01:15:02,580
But that the makeup of the implants themselves points to an extraterrestrial presence.

769
01:15:02,580 --> 01:15:08,580
Well, I was the one performing the first surgery because it was a foot case.

770
01:15:08,580 --> 01:15:12,860
And the general surgeon then acted as my assistant.

771
01:15:12,860 --> 01:15:19,020
In doing so, I was the one that did the active probing through the tissues to look for the

772
01:15:19,020 --> 01:15:20,020
object.

773
01:15:20,020 --> 01:15:26,060
And me, for example, as an assistant does, uses the retractors to hold the wound open

774
01:15:26,060 --> 01:15:31,220
and assist me with light and advice.

775
01:15:31,220 --> 01:15:38,260
One surprise came during this portion of the surgery when I touched something hard and

776
01:15:38,260 --> 01:15:43,820
the patient jerked a foot off the table, came out of the hypnoanesthesia and just cried

777
01:15:43,820 --> 01:15:47,180
out in excruciating pain.

778
01:15:47,180 --> 01:15:52,780
This was a very big surprise because just for the anesthesia that I had in the toe

779
01:15:52,780 --> 01:15:55,940
alone, she should have felt absolutely nothing.

780
01:15:55,940 --> 01:16:01,420
Now I always look for rational and normal answers to these things.

781
01:16:01,420 --> 01:16:06,620
And I felt that one of the things that could possibly happen was that in touching something

782
01:16:06,620 --> 01:16:12,700
I might have, let's say, pulled some major nerve trunk that was outside the field of

783
01:16:12,700 --> 01:16:13,700
anesthesia.

784
01:16:13,700 --> 01:16:15,540
And sometimes that happens.

785
01:16:15,540 --> 01:16:22,660
And so although it was a big surprise, it wasn't thoroughly in the realm of impossibility.

786
01:16:22,660 --> 01:16:29,980
So Darryl had reintroduced the hypnoanesthesia I called for more local, we put in more anesthesia.

787
01:16:29,980 --> 01:16:37,220
I was the one with the forceps, as you say, to initially grab the object and its jaws

788
01:16:37,220 --> 01:16:44,300
and to get it loosened from the surrounding tissue and removed it.

789
01:16:44,300 --> 01:16:49,620
At that point the patient also had a rather biodejection and felt discomfort.

790
01:16:49,620 --> 01:16:57,580
When I took it out and I put it on a white 4x4 Gullisponge and I looked at it, I was

791
01:16:57,580 --> 01:17:04,140
absolutely amazed because I had never seen anything like this in 37-1 years of surgery.

792
01:17:04,140 --> 01:17:09,780
And when you look at the general surgeon's clinical history too, he was just as amazed

793
01:17:09,780 --> 01:17:12,820
because he never seen anything that looked like that either.

794
01:17:12,820 --> 01:17:19,260
The next step was to ascertain as much information that we could from the material at hand.

795
01:17:19,260 --> 01:17:23,820
And the material at hand consisted of two types of material.

796
01:17:23,820 --> 01:17:30,620
One was the metallic portion of the implant and one was the biological portion.

797
01:17:30,620 --> 01:17:36,060
Then we could say that the biological portion also was subdivided into two portions.

798
01:17:36,060 --> 01:17:42,980
The tissue that I had removed that surrounded the area where the implant was in and the

799
01:17:42,980 --> 01:17:45,660
tissue that composed the membrane itself.

800
01:17:45,660 --> 01:17:50,820
So our first concern was the tissue that surrounded the implant.

801
01:17:50,820 --> 01:17:53,620
That's the first thing that went out for analysis.

802
01:17:53,620 --> 01:17:56,740
That's the first thing that I got reports on.

803
01:17:56,740 --> 01:18:04,580
That is the first thing that probably pushed me over the edge from a consummate's skeptic

804
01:18:04,620 --> 01:18:08,340
to a maybe strange.

805
01:18:08,340 --> 01:18:15,180
Because we found two things in the surgical pathology came back separately.

806
01:18:15,180 --> 01:18:20,980
They were only told, laboratories were only told, that this was soft tissue surrounding

807
01:18:20,980 --> 01:18:24,940
a foreign body and the place that it was taken from.

808
01:18:24,940 --> 01:18:31,180
The primary concern of a laboratory when receiving a soft tissue specimen today is whether it's

809
01:18:31,180 --> 01:18:32,980
malignant or benign.

810
01:18:32,980 --> 01:18:34,700
That's their primary interest.

811
01:18:34,700 --> 01:18:38,180
And so first of all they came back, the tissue was benign.

812
01:18:38,180 --> 01:18:43,940
There was nothing there to indicate any kind of malignancy, no tumor type tissue.

813
01:18:43,940 --> 01:18:51,660
Next thing what we found was that the tissue contained no evidence of an inflammatory response.

814
01:18:51,660 --> 01:18:55,220
And when I saw this I read the first report, I said, gee, this is weird.

815
01:18:55,220 --> 01:18:57,340
What kind of a fluke is this?

816
01:18:57,340 --> 01:19:04,340
And I think to myself, this lady must be a very strange lady because she doesn't react

817
01:19:04,340 --> 01:19:08,300
to inflammation when she gets something in her body.

818
01:19:08,300 --> 01:19:11,100
Individual thing, individual anomaly.

819
01:19:11,100 --> 01:19:14,140
Strange, but could happen.

820
01:19:14,140 --> 01:19:18,820
Then I read the second pathology report which came back on the gentleman with the object

821
01:19:18,820 --> 01:19:25,500
in the hand and again in different language, different words, but same thing.

822
01:19:25,500 --> 01:19:27,020
No inflammatory response.

823
01:19:27,020 --> 01:19:30,100
And I said, wait a minute.

824
01:19:30,100 --> 01:19:31,100
Two individuals?

825
01:19:31,100 --> 01:19:34,180
Oh, there's something very strange here.

826
01:19:34,180 --> 01:19:41,260
Then the second strange thing we found that in both individuals these areas were loaded

827
01:19:41,260 --> 01:19:48,740
with what are called nerve proprioceptors, little special sensor organs of nerves, M-tissue

828
01:19:48,740 --> 01:19:53,620
where it is not anatomically correct to be.

829
01:19:54,060 --> 01:19:59,180
If we look at the body or we look at the chart or we look at a copy of Gray's Anatomy

830
01:19:59,180 --> 01:20:06,540
or if you do surgery for 30 years, there's areas in the body where structures are constant.

831
01:20:06,540 --> 01:20:11,140
In other words, if you opened up a toe, you would expect to find bone.

832
01:20:11,140 --> 01:20:13,220
You would expect to find muscle.

833
01:20:13,220 --> 01:20:15,260
You would expect to find some blood supply.

834
01:20:15,260 --> 01:20:19,140
You would expect to find some nerve supply.

835
01:20:19,140 --> 01:20:24,700
Structures and specialized nerve tissue run in the areas where they're supposed to be

836
01:20:24,700 --> 01:20:26,500
anatomically correct.

837
01:20:26,500 --> 01:20:29,740
If you look in a book, this is the training.

838
01:20:29,740 --> 01:20:37,060
Most human beings, if we open them up, certain areas of the body, all the anatomical structures

839
01:20:37,060 --> 01:20:38,940
will be the same.

840
01:20:38,940 --> 01:20:42,940
So that's actually what allows surgery to take place.

841
01:20:42,940 --> 01:20:48,860
We don't expect to open a chest and then one individual will find the heart, two thirds

842
01:20:48,900 --> 01:20:51,100
on the right, one third on the left.

843
01:20:51,100 --> 01:20:54,900
It's always two thirds on the left, one third on the right.

844
01:20:54,900 --> 01:21:01,300
The tissues where these objects came out of were sort of a fatty, fibrous, cushioning

845
01:21:01,300 --> 01:21:02,980
type of tissue.

846
01:21:02,980 --> 01:21:06,700
Deep, down next to a bone.

847
01:21:06,700 --> 01:21:12,420
These are not places where you find specialized end organs for nerves.

848
01:21:12,420 --> 01:21:19,780
It was found that if the objects were taken out of the blood serum solution and dried,

849
01:21:19,780 --> 01:21:25,100
the membrane became brittle and lost its tensile strength.

850
01:21:25,100 --> 01:21:31,180
And then you could take any sharp instrument and cut through it, scrape it off the metal

851
01:21:31,180 --> 01:21:32,660
that was within.

852
01:21:32,660 --> 01:21:38,060
And when we first did that, we found out that there was two pieces of metal that composed

853
01:21:38,060 --> 01:21:41,180
the T-shaped object, not one.

854
01:21:41,180 --> 01:21:46,500
But it would be impossible to know that as it came out of the body because you could

855
01:21:46,500 --> 01:21:50,820
not move one little metal member on the other.

856
01:21:50,820 --> 01:21:51,820
It would not move.

857
01:21:51,820 --> 01:21:57,700
It was wrapped so tightly with this membrane structure, one piece of metal would not move

858
01:21:57,700 --> 01:21:58,980
upon the other.

859
01:21:58,980 --> 01:22:03,980
So that's how we got it off and that's the next step, was that we took pieces of the

860
01:22:03,980 --> 01:22:07,420
membrane and we sent that for analysis.

861
01:22:07,420 --> 01:22:14,020
The results of the membrane analysis again was one of the many surprises now, one piled

862
01:22:14,020 --> 01:22:22,660
upon another, which propelled me into an area that I wound up in today.

863
01:22:22,660 --> 01:22:29,980
The membrane was composed of only three simple human biological substances.

864
01:22:29,980 --> 01:22:35,460
One is called a protein coagulant, which just means that its protein derived from clotted

865
01:22:35,460 --> 01:22:36,460
blood.

866
01:22:37,180 --> 01:22:38,620
That's the bulk.

867
01:22:38,620 --> 01:22:43,620
And in this bulk, if you look at it under the microscope, you see some brown granules

868
01:22:43,620 --> 01:22:45,300
that look like raisins.

869
01:22:45,300 --> 01:22:51,260
And these brown granules were subjected to an iron stain and it came back positive and

870
01:22:51,260 --> 01:22:56,660
it was determined then that these brown granules was a substance called hemo-siderin.

871
01:22:56,660 --> 01:23:00,060
And hemo-siderin is an iron pigment.

872
01:23:00,700 --> 01:23:07,340
It's oxygen binding pigment, the cousin of which is hemoglobin, which is in the red cells.

873
01:23:07,340 --> 01:23:13,060
It's the carrier transport mechanism for oxygen about the body.

874
01:23:13,060 --> 01:23:18,340
Then the third and the last thing that we found were strands of keratin.

875
01:23:18,340 --> 01:23:25,460
And keratin makes up the outer layer of your skin, makes up your fingernails, toenails,

876
01:23:25,460 --> 01:23:29,500
your hair and the first few layers of the cornea of the eye.

877
01:23:29,500 --> 01:23:34,860
And those are the only places you find keratin on the body.

878
01:23:34,860 --> 01:23:37,140
Now there is a pathological situation.

879
01:23:37,140 --> 01:23:42,340
In other words, abnormal physiology is pathology.

880
01:23:42,340 --> 01:23:48,900
There are abnormal situations where you can find a process occurring in deep tissues of

881
01:23:48,900 --> 01:23:52,260
the body called keratinization.

882
01:23:52,260 --> 01:23:57,020
In other words, things can be coated with keratin.

883
01:23:57,060 --> 01:24:02,500
We don't know why that occurs, but it's some sort of a genetic anomaly.

884
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:05,580
But this was not keratinization.

885
01:24:05,580 --> 01:24:11,260
This was actually keratin strands that were in this membrane.

886
01:24:11,260 --> 01:24:18,460
And after learning that, I went into the medical school textbooks at Stanford, Harvard University,

887
01:24:18,460 --> 01:24:24,300
George Washington School of Medicine on the computer and tried to see if there was something

888
01:24:24,300 --> 01:24:29,220
listed in the pathology books that I was not aware of or something that may have been

889
01:24:29,220 --> 01:24:34,300
discovered for my 30 years of practice that I did not know.

890
01:24:34,300 --> 01:24:39,740
And I was unable to find anything that had ever been removed from the human body that

891
01:24:39,740 --> 01:24:43,100
was composed of these three substances.

892
01:24:43,100 --> 01:24:49,020
And this is a challenge that I put out today that I make, of course, to anyone in a scientific

893
01:24:49,020 --> 01:24:53,300
field is that they think these are mundane objects.

894
01:24:53,300 --> 01:25:00,260
Then please, please direct me to where I might look into a textbook and see this material

895
01:25:00,260 --> 01:25:01,260
somewhere else.

896
01:25:01,260 --> 01:25:10,020
I think we might say that the total sum of what I've done so far is do eight surgeries

897
01:25:10,020 --> 01:25:16,500
to date and that the eight surgeries have netted us nine objects.

898
01:25:16,500 --> 01:25:21,860
And of the nine objects, one turned out to be an ordinary piece of strange glass that

899
01:25:21,860 --> 01:25:23,780
contains sulfur.

900
01:25:23,780 --> 01:25:31,460
So that leaves us with eight objects from eight surgeries, all which turn out to be very strange.

901
01:25:31,460 --> 01:25:38,140
Three of these eight objects are little grayish white balls that are attached to an abnormality

902
01:25:38,140 --> 01:25:40,380
of the skin.

903
01:25:40,380 --> 01:25:47,420
And these were mistaken by a dermatologist in one case to be a lesion called a calcifying

904
01:25:47,420 --> 01:25:53,060
epithelioma saying that the little grayish white ball was a ball of calcium.

905
01:25:53,060 --> 01:25:57,660
This was one of the first specimens that went into the National Institute for Discovery

906
01:25:57,660 --> 01:26:04,780
Science and it turned out to have 21 different elements and none was calcium.

907
01:26:04,780 --> 01:26:11,660
The information on the other balls we are just starting now to get that information

908
01:26:11,660 --> 01:26:17,220
in because of the lack of funding and the cost of these tests.

909
01:26:17,220 --> 01:26:25,340
Now the other five objects are all metal objects and all covered with this very strange membrane.

910
01:26:25,340 --> 01:26:33,180
Three of the five objects are little cantaloupe seed shaped affairs and once the membrane

911
01:26:33,180 --> 01:26:37,780
is removed there is a little metallic rod inside.

912
01:26:37,780 --> 01:26:43,860
The other one that was removed from the toe of the lady was a T-shaped object which contained

913
01:26:43,860 --> 01:26:49,380
two little metallic rods, one butted against the other.

914
01:26:49,380 --> 01:26:57,500
And the last one was a metallic triangle that was removed from a gentleman's jaw also covered

915
01:26:57,500 --> 01:27:00,300
with this very strange membrane.

916
01:27:00,300 --> 01:27:05,900
Now the first set of results came because the National Institute for Discovery Science

917
01:27:05,900 --> 01:27:11,060
had sent some of these metallic objects to Los Alamos National Labs.

918
01:27:11,060 --> 01:27:17,780
Los Alamos did a comprehensive examination with an electron microscope and told us what

919
01:27:17,780 --> 01:27:24,980
elements were in the metal rods and at the end of their report they merely suggested

920
01:27:24,980 --> 01:27:27,980
more research, more tests should be done.

921
01:27:28,460 --> 01:27:33,100
At that point we knew we didn't have an ordinary piece of wood or twig.

922
01:27:33,100 --> 01:27:39,940
We knew that a prestigious laboratory such as Los Alamos would not say go do further

923
01:27:39,940 --> 01:27:43,860
testing if they had an ordinary mundane object.

924
01:27:43,860 --> 01:27:50,660
So the objects then went back to NEDS and from NEDS they went out to New Mexico Tech

925
01:27:50,660 --> 01:27:57,540
which is another world class laboratory and an entire battery of metallurgical examinations

926
01:27:57,580 --> 01:27:59,620
were performed.

927
01:27:59,620 --> 01:28:06,620
The results, their conclusion was that these were objects that were most likely samples

928
01:28:06,620 --> 01:28:11,140
of meteorites and they were not told the origin.

929
01:28:11,140 --> 01:28:17,820
The laboratories were never told whether these fell off an ostrich's feather or whether

930
01:28:17,820 --> 01:28:20,860
it was found on the bottom of the ocean.

931
01:28:20,860 --> 01:28:27,860
So we know without a doubt since there is no skin abnormalities with metallic objects,

932
01:28:28,500 --> 01:28:35,300
no scar, no visible port of entry, we certainly know that the lady did not step on a meteorite

933
01:28:35,300 --> 01:28:40,460
and the gentleman didn't whack one with the back of his hand.

934
01:28:40,460 --> 01:28:47,460
Finally to top off the metallurgical testing, a test we run at the University of California

935
01:28:48,300 --> 01:28:53,380
and the researcher there determined that some of the metals, some of the elements in these

936
01:28:53,380 --> 01:29:00,380
objects contain non-terrestrial isotopic ratios which means they don't come from this

937
01:29:01,220 --> 01:29:03,220
earth.

938
01:29:03,220 --> 01:29:08,820
By this time I don't think that I could have had any further surprises that would push

939
01:29:08,820 --> 01:29:13,060
me farther over the edge than I already was.

940
01:29:13,060 --> 01:29:15,460
This was the icing on the cake.

941
01:29:15,460 --> 01:29:22,460
This then meant that we were proposing the most profound question that could absolutely

942
01:29:22,500 --> 01:29:29,500
be proposed to mankind and that is people who ledge alien abduction, wind up with objects

943
01:29:31,740 --> 01:29:38,740
in their body that contain extraterrestrial isotopic ratios and therefore the only conclusion

944
01:29:39,540 --> 01:29:46,540
that I could draw was that these people are telling the truth and this is proof that mankind

945
01:29:46,860 --> 01:29:53,860
has been manipulated by extraterrestrial, inter-dimensional, some other being other than human being.

946
01:29:58,100 --> 01:30:03,380
To end this edition of UFO's Hard Evidence, here's a look at some recent and not so recent

947
01:30:03,380 --> 01:30:07,820
video footage, gleaned from UFO enthusiasts around the world.

948
01:30:07,820 --> 01:30:12,180
Until the next time, thanks for watching and we look forward to the pleasure of your company

949
01:30:12,180 --> 01:30:15,180
again in the not too distant future.

950
01:30:33,380 --> 01:30:40,380
Thank you.

951
01:31:03,380 --> 01:31:10,380
It occurred on Saturday the 29th of April.

952
01:31:23,860 --> 01:31:28,620
What was unusual about this sighting was there were at four separate sightings of craft

953
01:31:28,620 --> 01:31:35,340
within the space of roughly an hour and a half. This first video you can see here shows

954
01:31:35,340 --> 01:31:42,340
a UFO with an aircraft in its very immediate vicinity. The aircraft seems to be above the

955
01:31:42,660 --> 01:31:47,500
cloud because it gets obscured behind the cloud. The UFO is actually I believe beneath

956
01:31:47,500 --> 01:31:53,100
it because it hovers underneath so there could be some distance between the two craft but

957
01:31:53,100 --> 01:31:59,580
still in aviation terms it's quite a near miss event so I think it's quite significant

958
01:31:59,580 --> 01:32:06,580
for those reasons. You can also see that there's quite a bit of aircraft traffic in the vicinity.

959
01:32:06,580 --> 01:32:12,580
It's a very busy part of London. You've got city aircores, you've got traffic coming into

960
01:32:12,580 --> 01:32:18,580
Heathrow, in the west it's very busy.

961
01:32:19,380 --> 01:32:25,380
This second sighting occurred approximately 30 minutes after the first at around 3.22pm.

962
01:32:25,380 --> 01:32:32,880
Again this object was quite indeterminate in shape, possibly spherical, very reflective

963
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:38,100
and was visible for approximately about a minute. Again it appeared beside the cloud,

964
01:32:38,100 --> 01:32:42,100
hovered and disappeared.

965
01:32:42,620 --> 01:32:49,620
Okay, we've seen two objects this afternoon. One was just a couple of minutes ago, very

966
01:32:50,660 --> 01:32:57,660
high altitude, that direction. It wasn't very near but definitely a solid destruction

967
01:32:59,660 --> 01:33:06,660
craft. That's two sightings in about 35 minutes so it's very exciting. I'm hoping that all

968
01:33:06,660 --> 01:33:13,660
of these are craft. This third object was probably the most unusual out of the four.

969
01:33:14,660 --> 01:33:21,660
It consisted of a dumbbell type of craft, two spheres very closely linked together as you'll

970
01:33:22,740 --> 01:33:28,340
be able to see from the video. It seems to be a kind of rotation going on with these

971
01:33:28,340 --> 01:33:34,740
two objects and you'll also notice the top of the sphere seems to link in and out of

972
01:33:34,740 --> 01:33:40,220
visibility, very unusual. Again suggests that this isn't a balloon or two balloons

973
01:33:40,220 --> 01:33:45,980
thrown together because again it's swaying on a particular axis and if these were balloons

974
01:33:45,980 --> 01:33:51,580
being buffeted around by the wind you wouldn't really expect this kind of uniform rotation

975
01:33:51,580 --> 01:33:58,580
going on. I believe that personally this is some kind of dumbbell craft that is actually

976
01:33:59,380 --> 01:34:05,140
coming in and out of our dimensional plane if you like. God knows what the physics involved

977
01:34:05,140 --> 01:34:12,140
is but one minute you can see this object and the next minute it's kind of hazy.

978
01:34:14,980 --> 01:34:20,260
This final object appeared approximately full 20, roughly 35 minutes after the dumbbell

979
01:34:20,260 --> 01:34:25,260
craft. Again it just appeared from out of the blue. What's interesting about this object

980
01:34:25,260 --> 01:34:30,020
is that it seems to hug the control of the clouds. It seems to me that it's definitely

981
01:34:30,020 --> 01:34:37,020
under intelligent control. If it were a balloon you'd expect it to just be blown around randomly

982
01:34:37,020 --> 01:34:42,780
in the sky but it's actually following the control of this cloud as if to keep itself

983
01:34:42,780 --> 01:34:49,780
concealed from the inquisitive eyes. This whole event drew to a close roughly about 425.

984
01:34:50,780 --> 01:34:57,780
So we're talking about an hour, hour and a half in which fall craft appeared at separate

985
01:35:00,180 --> 01:35:07,180
times. Again this is a precedent for me. I think it's very significant that these craft

986
01:35:07,180 --> 01:35:13,620
are appearing greater numbers and more often. I think there's definitely hint that this

987
01:35:13,620 --> 01:35:18,620
is an attempt at communication by the occupants or the pilots of these objects.